‘We need to push and break assumptions’: An interview with King’s College’s Dr. Rana Baker

Following accusations that Dr. Rana Baker has been “spreading Hamas propaganda”, The London Tab sat down for an interview with her to talk her about her life, academic career and thoughts about student activism following October 7th 2023.

Dr. Baker is a lecturer in the history of the Middle East and her research interests lie in critical political economy, histories of capitalism and colonial modernity.

Born and raised in Palestine, Dr Baker lived in Gaza City until 2013. She then decided to move to London and pursue a Master’s at SOAS.

Dr Baker stayed in the city for another year, working as a research assistant, then moving to New York to study her PhD at Columbia University, which she called “amazing”. Upon completion, she returned to London, where she took up her post at King’s College London.

What was it like moving around so much?

RB: “It has been really interesting and eye opening, especially from an academic perspective. Gaza has it own academic culture, I did my undergraduate at the Islamic University and there we were exposed to Islamic concepts of economic organisation, the concept of human rights in Islam and commercial law. It was quite different but very interesting.

“London has a very secular culture of education which was equally eye-opening and interesting. I was exposed to things like critical theory and postcolonial studies which I previously knew nothing about. It was very interesting for me, and I appreciated the diversity of the student body. The one thing about being in Gaza is that due to the conditions of siege, you don’t have that same diversity, so SOAS was very rich in that sense. And Columbia was the best seven years I had academically.”

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Speaking of Columbia, how do you feel about everything that happened in Columbia or in East Coast colleges following October 7th? Especially as someone who spent so long there?

“To be honest, there is Columbia and there is the senior management, or the bureaucracy of Columbia. In terms of academic staff and students, people were generally upfront about Palestine and politically vocal. The department I was in, MESAS, was a department that was rooted in the postcolonial tradition, and that was the framework through which they operated.

“It differs from department to department, but I don’t think the managerial staff were ever supportive of the issue of Palestine. The way Columbia dealt with the encampment was shocking because I didn’t expect that they would just invite the police over to campus. But the stance itself isn’t surprising unfortunately.”

And what about KCL? Do you feel supported as an academic here?

“Again, I’d distinguish between the department and to some extent the faculty, and then senior management. In my department, my colleagues have been very supportive and have checked in on me. But in terms of the way the college handles things, I don’t think its supportive at all.

“I think that they cave very quickly to external pressure, even when unjustified. They care much more about what people on the outside think of them rather than supporting members of staff or taking a principled stance in the case of Palestine. We can see how the university handled events since October 7th. Palestinians have always been secondary in any emails and communication.

“Everything is centred around October 7th and not [what] followed. I think that’s really problematic and I know that senior people in the university have been meeting with Israeli students on a weekly basis since October 7th. As far as I know the same level of support has not been extended to students who are Palestinian or Arab. You can see the level of discrimination.

“So at the level of senior management there has hardly been any support.”

Speaking of student activism, how do you feel about the way it has been practised? Do you think students are doing enough or is there anything more you think they can do?

via @kcl.sjp on Instagram

“I think the students are doing as much as they can in the context they are in. A lot of these students do come from Muslim or Arab backgrounds so they are already quite vulnerable and they are affected by explicit or implicit biases and racism. The way they behave is much less tolerated than that of a [pro-Israel] student on campus.

“A [pro-Israel] student can bring an adult not affiliated with King’s to a student protest organised on the Strand and have these adults physically harass students. This is something I saw myself and till date the university has not taken action against the student who was behind that. But on the other hand, the encampment was bought to an end. It was perfectly peaceful but according to the university it was somehow still worth securitising in a heavy handed manner.

“So I do think students are doing the best they can and I really admire them. They are not receiving the same level of support that the university has extended to Israeli students which forms grounds for discrimination but that is something the law is better suited to look at.”

So how would someone not directly impacted by the issues of Palestine or October 7th be a good ally?

“I’ve seen students who aren’t Muslim or Arab step up. I’ve seen them stand up to the adults at the protest I mentioned earlier and they acted as a barrier, protecting their fellow students. I’m sure students from more vulnerable backgrounds appreciate that and they are a part and parcel of the movement.”

And what about the role of academia? How can academics be good role models in this case?

“I think as an academic the most important thing is to be principled and outspoken. I think the problem is the atmosphere of fear towards pro-Palestinian forms of speech which does affect academics badly. I think some, not all, are too scared to speak up.

“I do think if  enough of us took a principled stance and spoke up the university will not be able to discriminate as easily. I think being outspoken in the context of teaching is important. Of course there are legal limits on free speech and there are things the college does that limits that. It delimits the little space we have.”

So do you think universities like KCL actually have an atmosphere of free speech?

via @kcl.sjp on Instagram

“No I don’t think so. They tell us that. We have been told repeatedly that academic freedom is protected and freedom of speech is protected. They make those statements and I don’t deny that, but has it actually been implemented and have I experienced this myself? Absolutely not.

“If we have discussions that a student from a [Israeli] background happens to be uncomfortable with and they complain, then the university cannot keep its word. They don’t protect you if someone complains. So don’t tell us that to begin with so we are not put in a situation you cannot protect us from.

In light of that, what has shaped your research interests as an academic?

“My main area of interest is Egypt and I really do enjoy studying its history and political economy in the modern and early modern period. The 2011 revolution really influenced me. I was influenced by it in a really positive way. In Gaza we are very connected to Egypt so it really hit home and we also generally dislike Mubarak because he was in cahoots with the Israelis and enforced the siege.

“The siege years were really difficult, and growing up in Gaza and being a young person, wondering what you’re going to do with your life, it’s really difficult. Leaving was impossible. Before New York I was going to the border everyday and when I finally managed to leave I didn’t see my family for six years because the border was closed.

“People often ask me ‘why Egypt? Why not Palestine?’ And my answer is two things: How am I going to be someone who works in the archives when I cannot even access the place of my birth? Even Gaza is no longer an option. Secondly, I cannot see Palestine as a career, I can’t ever be a scholar of Palestine.

“I don’t want to make it a research object and I can’t relate to it that way. My experience and upbringing in Gaza did shape me. I do feel that as academics we need to be principled and we need to teach critically and students should be exposed to new ways of thinking.

“In the course I teach students come with this preconceived perception of Palestine and the Middle East and it takes time to push students to question these assumptions. I don’t think I would have been this committed to this was of thinking if it hadn’t been for my experience in Gaza. It’s not a ‘please understand us’ as much as it is a ‘this is what we are’. We need to push and break assumptions.”

Since you operate in a field with so many assumptions, how do you deal with that, or general negative feedback?

“To be honest, I have mostly received positive feedback and I really appreciate that. It makes me feel like I’m doing the right thing and this really reinforces my teaching. I have had one complaint from a student who was unhappy with the discussion I was leading, and I don’t think it was unhappiness with the discussion as much as unhappiness at having a Palestinian professor. That’s what it came down to. 

Sometimes I get students who come up to me at the end of term and tell me how they appreciate being exposed to something new. I always like to begin my courses by saying that ‘this is what the class is about: Breaking assumptions, and if you don’t like that you should find another class. We are not going to rehash the same stuff’.” 

Thank you so much for taking the time to sit down for this interview with me

“Thank you.”

Kings College London and Columbia University were approached for comment but did not respond.